Discussion:
A Quora - How has life in Russia -- sucks - World Bank figures
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Byker
2021-04-14 18:30:00 UTC
Permalink
.....
There is nothing inherently flawed with the Russian people or the Russian
country, But their corrupt leaders and system have caused them to even
fall behind those they beat in WWII and their former satellite vassal
states.
Russland has a geographical problem that it will NEVER shake:


Keith Willshaw
2021-04-15 18:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
.....
There is nothing inherently flawed with the Russian people or the Russian
country,  But their corrupt leaders and system have caused them to even
fall behind those they beat in WWII and their former satellite vassal
states.
http://youtu.be/v3C_5bsdQWg
Geography is not the problem close by St Peterburg are Norway, Sweden,
Finland, Latvia, Lithuania etc. Its cultural, the Russians admire strong
leaders even whe they are brutal, millions mourned Stalin, Ivan the
Terrible etc. Democracy is seepel embedded in the pysche of western
europe and North America, that is not true of Russia.
Byker
2021-04-15 20:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Willshaw
Post by Byker
http://youtu.be/v3C_5bsdQWg
Geography is not the problem close by St Peterburg are Norway, Sweden,
Finland, Latvia, Lithuania etc. Its cultural, the Russians admire strong
leaders even whe they are brutal, millions mourned Stalin, Ivan the
Terrible etc. Democracy is seepel embedded in the pysche of western europe
and North America, that is not true of Russia.
"Russia is not America and can never be. Let
Russia be Russia and America be America."

-- Gen. Alexander Lebed, in his autobiography:
https://www.amazon.com/General-Alexander-Lebed-Life-Country/dp/0895264226

I'll go with that...
Jim Wilkins
2021-04-15 23:49:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Willshaw
Post by Byker
http://youtu.be/v3C_5bsdQWg
Geography is not the problem close by St Peterburg are Norway, Sweden,
Finland, Latvia, Lithuania etc. Its cultural, the Russians admire strong
leaders even whe they are brutal, millions mourned Stalin, Ivan the
Terrible etc. Democracy is seepel embedded in the pysche of western europe
and North America, that is not true of Russia.
"Russia is not America and can never be. Let
Russia be Russia and America be America."

-- Gen. Alexander Lebed, in his autobiography:
https://www.amazon.com/General-Alexander-Lebed-Life-Country/dp/0895264226

I'll go with that...

----------------------------

We haven't tried to turn conquered nations into copies of America. The
government we leave them with is usually whatever democratic institution
they had previously, often a version of the British Parliament. Japan even
retained the Emperor.
Oleg Smirnov
2021-04-15 23:58:23 UTC
Permalink
"Byker" wrote in message
We haven't tried to turn conquered nations into copies of America. The
government we leave them with is usually whatever democratic institution
they had previously, often a version of the British Parliament. Japan even
retained the Emperor.
You are sheep who'd repeat what your minders indoctrinated you with.

And when these sheep say "we", it sounds funny.
Siri Cruise
2021-04-16 00:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oleg Smirnov
"Byker" wrote in message
We haven't tried to turn conquered nations into copies of America. The
government we leave them with is usually whatever democratic institution
they had previously, often a version of the British Parliament. Japan even
retained the Emperor.
You are sheep who'd repeat what your minders indoctrinated you with.
And when these sheep say "we", it sounds funny.
So how russian ships have been sunk in the Black Sea live fire
exercises? I bet Romania is really quaking in their stylish but
affordable galoshes.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed
Keith Willshaw
2021-04-16 14:40:49 UTC
Permalink
On 16/04/2021 01:05, Siri Cruise wrote:
.
Post by Siri Cruise
So how russian ships have been sunk in the Black Sea live fire
exercises? I bet Romania is really quaking in their stylish but
affordable galoshes.
This being a naval website I would hope that people would know Romania
is a member of NATO and that the USA has basing rights there and a
significant military oresence.
https://balkaninsight.com/2020/07/30/romania-ready-to-welcome-us-troops-removed-from-germany/

The USN has recently operated patrols in the Black Sea by the USS
Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/04/09/navy-warships-could-head-black-sea-russia-ukraine-tensions-escalate.html
Siri Cruise
2021-04-16 16:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Willshaw
This being a naval website I would hope that people would know Romania
is a member of NATO and that the USA has basing rights there and a
significant military oresence.
Yes. And Russia has traditionally bullied Romania in the Black
Sea. Russia is pretending the USN is in the Black Sea to fight
for Ukraine. Russia doesn't like to be reminded Romania and the
US share defences.

Turkey and Bulgaria are also on the Black Sea, but I haven't
heard they have fleets there.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed
a425couple
2021-04-16 17:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Keith Willshaw
This being a naval website I would hope that people would know Romania
is a member of NATO and that the USA has basing rights there and a
significant military oresence.
Yes. And Russia has traditionally bullied Romania in the Black
Sea. ----
Sad. Very sad how Russia keeps avoiding real success.

from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

30 Czech Republic$42,956
35 Slovenia 40,820
36 Lithuania 40,784
37 Estonia 39,729
39 Poland 35,957
40 Hungary 35,088
41 Slovakia 34,815
43 Latvia 33,394
44 Romania 32,950
45 Turkey 32,278
49 Croatia 29,777

50 Russia 29,485

52 Kazakhstan 27,560
55 Bulgaria 25,471
65 Belarus 20,578
66 Serbia 20,545

70 China 18,931

74 North Macedonia 17,663
75 Turkmenistan 17,415
77 Bosnia and Herzegovina 15,935
78 Georgia 15,709
81 Albania 15,225
83 Azerbaijan 14,856

86 Ukraine 13,943
89 Moldova 13,879
91 Armenia 13,638
Leper
2021-04-16 23:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Keith Willshaw
This being a naval website I would hope that people would know Romania
is a member of NATO and that the USA has basing rights there and a
significant military oresence.
Yes. And Russia has traditionally bullied Romania in the Black
Sea. Russia is pretending the USN is in the Black Sea to fight
for Ukraine. Russia doesn't like to be reminded Romania and the
US share defences.
Turkey and Bulgaria are also on the Black Sea, but I haven't
heard they have fleets there.
Might ben a coming attraction. ;-)
Keith Willshaw
2021-04-17 12:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Yes. And Russia has traditionally bullied Romania in the Black
Sea. Russia is pretending the USN is in the Black Sea to fight
for Ukraine. Russia doesn't like to be reminded Romania and the
US share defences.
Turkey and Bulgaria are also on the Black Sea, but I haven't
heard they have fleets there.
Turkey has several F-16 squadrons as well as 2 Phantom F-4E Units
The Navy has 8 Class 209 German built submarines, 8 ex USN OHP and 8
Meko frigates and a significant number of fast attack craft
It is also a NATO member. Turkey would be no pushover.

Bulgaria has a small airforce equipped with Su 25 and Mig 29's of
dubious value. The Navy is pretty much the same with a small number of
soviet era submarines, frigates and fast attack boats. Essentially its a
coastal patrol force.
Byker
2021-04-16 17:05:44 UTC
Permalink
"Byker" wrote in message
Post by Jim Wilkins
We haven't tried to turn conquered nations into copies of America. The
government we leave them with is usually whatever democratic institution
they had previously, often a version of the British Parliament. Japan
even retained the Emperor.
You are sheep who'd repeat what your minders indoctrinated you with.
You wouldn't dare say otherwise or you'd be on your way to Siberia...
Oleg Smirnov
2021-04-16 18:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Post by Oleg Smirnov
Post by Jim Wilkins
even retained the Emperor.
You are sheep who'd repeat what your minders indoctrinated you with.
You wouldn't dare say otherwise or you'd be on your way to Siberia...
<https://tinyurl.com/maga-maga-maga-maga>

Siberia is beautiful.
Byker
2021-04-17 23:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oleg Smirnov
Siberia is beautiful.
Yup: https://tinyurl.com/yjf5kpfn

Stephen Harding
2021-04-15 22:44:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Willshaw
Post by Byker
.....
There is nothing inherently flawed with the Russian people or the Russian
country,  But their corrupt leaders and system have caused them to even
fall behind those they beat in WWII and their former satellite vassal
states.
http://youtu.be/v3C_5bsdQWg
Geography is not the problem close by St Peterburg are Norway, Sweden,
Finland, Latvia, Lithuania etc. Its cultural, the Russians admire strong
leaders even whe they are brutal, millions mourned Stalin, Ivan the
Terrible etc. Democracy is seepel embedded in the pysche of western
europe and North America, that is not true of Russia.
Having spent years aboard Soviet fishing vessels fishing the US EEZ back
in the late 70's and early 80's, the one thing that most impressed me
about Russians was their ability to suffer!

They can tolerate conditions (physical and mental) that would have us
Americans and I think Western Europeans as well, crying like babies in
short time.

I think Russia could be quite a nation if they let loose the creative
drive that exists in its people. Just always seems suppressed by either
some authoritarian or ubiquitous corruption, and usually it seems, both.

But it's true; the Russians do seem to admire powerful leadership even
if it turns brutal on them.
Byker
2021-04-16 18:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Harding
Having spent years aboard Soviet fishing vessels fishing the US EEZ back
in the late 70's and early 80's, the one thing that most impressed me
about Russians was their ability to suffer!
They can tolerate conditions (physical and mental) that would have us
Americans and I think Western Europeans as well, crying like babies in
short time.
I think Russia could be quite a nation if they let loose the creative
drive that exists in its people. Just always seems suppressed by either
some authoritarian or ubiquitous corruption, and usually it seems, both.
But it's true; the Russians do seem to admire powerful leadership even if
it turns brutal on them.
That's the way it's been since the days of Rurik.

Russkies look back on the times of Ivan IV, Peter
the Great, and Joe Stalin as "the good old days"...
------------------------------------------------
Russians remain fatalistic and resigned to disasters

By STEVEN LEE MYERS

MOSCOW — There was something sadly predictable about the reaction to
Russia's latest convulsion of disasters: a plane crash, a mine blast and a
nursing home fire. In the span of four days, 180 Russians died and the
country, more or less, shrugged.

"They thought about this between the borscht and the cutlet," Matvei
Ganapolsky, a radio host, said on Ekho Moskvy, comparing Russia's collective
reaction to tragedy, unfavorably, to that of other countries. Outrage or
grief or sympathy lasts about as long as a pause between the courses.

It would be wrong to stereotype, to say that Russians are fatalistic or
heartless. They are, however, not only resigned to tragedy but inured to it
in a way that to many raises alarms about the country's future. They are not
just helpless in the face of disaster; they could be called complicit, ever
beckoning the next one by their actions or lack of action.

Disasters, natural and man-made, occur everywhere, but unnatural death
occurs in Russia with unnatural frequency and in unnatural quantity.

In a report in 2005 called "Dying Too Young," the World Bank warned that
accidents, which affect men of working age the most, were contributing to a
decline in the Russian population. The country is a world leader in
industrial accidents, like the explosion at a Siberian mine Monday that
killed 110, in traffic accidents, in fires, in murders and in suicides.

Russians grieve, but they do so privately. They rarely demand public action
through the media, elected representatives or street protests. A result is a
lack of accountability, even impunity, that lets corruption fester,
otherwise solvable problems mount.

A fire early Tuesday engulfed a government home for the elderly and disabled
in a small town on the Sea of Azov, killing 63 at last count. It quickly
became apparent that the building had been declared unsafe, inadequately
equipped to suppress fire and built with toxic materials that almost
certainly increased the death toll. And yet, somehow, it remained open.

If it seemed shockingly familiar, that is because it was. A fire in December
killed 46 at a drug-treatment hospital in Moscow. The doors and windows were
locked. Inspectors had spotted violations that had apparently never been
fixed. A day later 10 patients died in a fire at a home for the mentally ill
in Siberia.

Igor Trunov, a prominent lawyer in Moscow, argued that a lack of legal - or
political - accountability allowed private companies and public agencies to
flout rules and regulations and escape punishment for wrongdoing. He cited
the airline industry, saying that aging equipment, shoddy maintenance and
poor training contributed to a number of crashes.

The latest came on March 17 when a Soviet-era airliner missed a runway in
Samara and overturned, killing 7 of 57 people aboard in an accident
preliminarily attributed to mechanical problems and pilot error. That crash
followed two major disasters last year - a crash landing in Irkutsk, in
Siberia, which killed 125, and a flight to St. Petersburg that crashed in a
storm over eastern Ukraine, killing 170.

Trunov's answer is still a novelty here: the lawsuit. He has campaigned to
win more compensation for victims of some prominent tragedies: an avalanche
in the Northern Caucasus in 2002 (125 dead); the botched rescue of hostages
in a Moscow theater in 2002 (128); the collapse of a water park in Moscow in
2004 (28); and both of the air disasters last year (295). He has so far lost
them all.

Russia, he said, suffers from a mentality in which human life is not valued.
In a recent article he computed the value of a person based on various
countries' laws for compensating injuries or death. Life in Russia is, in
fact, cheap. According to his calculation a Russian is worth $118,000; an
American, $3.2 million.

It has become a sorry routine: the promise of action and the failure to
deliver. After the disaster at the indoor water park, the emergencies
minister, Sergei Shoigu, appeared before TV cameras and demanded an end to
shoddy building and maintenance. No one has been held to account. In
February 2006 the roof of a market built by the same architect collapsed; 56
died.

History might explain part of the country's indifference. Russia has endured
revolution and war on a scale that can be difficult to comprehend. A former
commandant of the Army War College in the United States, Major General
Robert Scales, once recalled giving a Russian general a tour of Gettysburg.
The Russian asked the American how many casualties the battle had produced.
Told that 51,000 soldiers had been killed, wounded or left missing, the
Russian swept his hand dismissively.

"Skirmish," he said.

But Ganapolsky, the radio host, said history alone did not explain Russia of
today. Russians care, he said in an interview, but they stay home and
express their anger or sorrow in private.

"Why do Italians come out into the streets?" he said. "Because they know
they can change their government. Why don't Russians come out in the street?
Because they know they will meet the riot police."

http://rlu.ru/2KMt8
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